Struggling with own my feelings over the Mommy and Non-Mommy Divide, I asked over a dozen of my girlfriends to weigh in... with some interesting revelations! Here's Part 4 in this blog mini-series.
Part 4: Parenting in Public
With news stories about the "no-kids-allowed" movement spreading across the country as restaurants and even airlines discuss banning children from their services, I'm personally torn over how I should feel about it.
Not too long ago, I was verbally attacked on Facebook for complaining that a parent allowed their child to babble loudly for an hour during a (non-age-appropriate) movie before removing them from the theater, and that it was poor parenting not to remove the child earlier. While some of my Mommy friends came to my rescue and supported me, I realized that I do judge parents by how they handle their children in public. I appreciate the lack of kids in places like bars and certain all-inclusive resorts. But do I support banning children from restaurants or first-class cabins? NO. Kids have to eat, kids have to travel. There's a time and place for everything... I'm not going to get mad if I go to a G-rated movie or fast food restaurant and have to deal with unruly kids.
The ladies, for the most part, were in agreement with me.
Amanda (working mom): I have to admit that I have been the lady across the restaurant or airplane wanting to yell at the parents of a screaming child, but now that I have my own I understand that sometimes children just act up... but I will say that as parents we should KNOW how to control our children. I try not to take my son to sit down restaurants until I feel okay with his behavior out of respect to others. But fast food places like McDonalds and such are fair game.
Kris (married, no kids): I think it’s silly for restaurants & airlines to disallow children. How are families suppose to teach their children good manners if they are not allowed at restaurants? Everyone was a child once, everyone deserves a childhood. It is almost like society is saying that we shouldn’t have children.
Kim (engaged, no kids): I honestly think that it's a good thing that there are some things reserved for adults. I see both sides, and the compromise being that in some institutions they can have nights/days for adults and then times for kids/families. It doesn't need to be black and white, adults don't enjoy being around screaming children all the time but kids don't need to be completely excluded either. I will say that one of my biggest pet peeves is screaming kids in the movies. If they can't behave, leave them with a babysitter. Bottom line. You have to think about everyone around you because they are spending their hard-earned money as well.
Ellie (stay-at-home mom): I think the free market will work here. If there is a demand for "baby-free" airlines and "baby-free" restaurants, go for it. However, I sort of feel like this could be age discrimination. No? The point is, we'll have options. I'm not afraid of not having a place to eat with my baby or a plane to ride on in the near future.
Melanie (working, single mom): This is discrimination. Children are people and from an underclass that has no power.
Emma (married, no kids): I think it's ridiculous. But sadly, there are so many parents out there that don't have control of their children and let them run amok or be disruptive. I think that restaurants should have the right to ask patrons who cause problems to leave but not on a plane (obviously). Kids should be allowed in first class too.
Vickie (working mom): So that means they’re not letting a**holes on flights and in restaurants too? Isn’t that age discrimination? In a way it I think it’s a little too much. If you chose to eat at a family style restaurant, guess what, there are going to be families there. Just like families need to travel too. I am going to boycott companies that do this. I don’t always bring my kids with me when I eat and travel. Just because I don’t always have my children with me doesn’t mean that I won’t keep a policy like that in mind when I do go out. I think that it’s rather rude that some parents are not courteous enough to think of others while they are out.
One of the ladies was more outspoken, and expressed an opinion that is one that many in support of the no-kids-allowed rules share.
Maura (married, no kids): "I certainly agree with restrictions for children in public settings. If I choose to pay more to sit in a certain section of a plane, or choose a night out at a restaurant, I should not have to be bombarded by unruly children. I do not choose to scream or throw food, and do not care to be subjected to poopy diapers and the rest of it. I applaud those who stand up for the rights of others not to be subjected to other people’s children. It’s about being considerate to those around you, and remembering just because you produced a tiny human – the world doesn’t revolve around you. Children are born every day, it’s not a superhuman feat."
So what's the best way to deal with a child who throws a tantrum in public (like a movie or restaurant) and is disrupting other paying patrons? The ladies were in agreement here as well.
Mommies said:
-"Remove the child from the situation, if at all possible. Take them home. If that is simply not possible, in the interim, apologies to the patrons nearby and offering to buy us all a glass of wine is appreciated."
-"Definitely remove the child from the situation. They can try a few times to discipline them, but if that doesn't work, leave."
-"The best thing is to immediately take the child outside to the car (or toward home) and forget about running your errands that day--usually this enough for the child to know the parent is serious and that such behavior is not acceptable. As for movie theaters, kids should not be in the theater unless they are old enough to watch the more mature films (there is a rating system for a reason--a 3-year-old should not be viewing a PG movie)."
-"They shouldn’t bring a child into an inappropriate environment in the first place. If they do, then they should be considerate of the other people who also paid for their meal/tickets, and remove themselves from the situation. If I’m obnoxiously talking on a conference call at a restaurant or movie, I too would owe an apology to those around me, and should remove myself from the situation."
-"Remove child from environment. Period."
-"At the movie theater the parent should take the child out. I'm not sure if it's the right thing but when my child starts to be like that I quietly take him out of the theater out of respect and wait until he calms down."
Non-Mommies said:
-"If a child is loud or throwing a tantrum in a movie, they need to leave or at least get up. It is not fair to the other paying customers. They should have gotten a babysitter. [For restaurants] I totally feel that it depends on the location and the age of the child."
-"Babies don't belong in loud movie theatres, it's hard on their developing ear drums and if they cry, it's rude to the people who are trying to enjoy the film... if you're going to see something rated G/PG you should expect it and deal with it. Same goes for restaurants. If it's a nice place, maybe you shouldn't bring your kids if you know they're going to act up. If it's at McDonalds, then get a life people, McDonald's is for everyone! But seriously, it's the parent's responsibility to control the situation and know when to leave."
-"I think they should go outside and calm the child down and then return."
-"Honestly there are just some times and places that you do not bring your child out. They need to leave if the child is out of control. I know that I have left a movie early with a yelling toddler. It’s the polite thing to do."
-"Depends to the extent. If a baby is crying - the parent isn't going to enjoy anything they are doing anyway. It sounds harsh - but maybe they should try again another time. If children is being slightly rambunctious and not really bothering everything - then the general population should probably get over it because everyone was a child at some point. Same with a whiney baby - if it's just a little fussy - people should get over it."
Jo and Hannah made good points about children with special needs.
Jo (working mom): "I think the parent should either discipline or control their child, or step outside until things calm down. However, I think the general public should have a little patience. You never know what a child is going through. Perhaps they have some sort of mental or emotional condition and cannot control their outbursts."
Hannah (stay-at-home mom): "I am more understanding of this having a child with special issues... however, I still remove him from the area if it is an area meant to be quiet in (if I was attending a hockey game I'd probably stay there with him!)"
In summary, the general consensus was that banning children altogether from establishments and airplane cabins is discriminatory, but it all comes back to proper parenting in public. Most agree that parents need to take control of situations where their child is disruptive to others in public, and that sometimes the parents need to take the child out of the situation and sacrifice their night out to be fair to others. In addition, we need to have more patience with children in public, because they are human beings ad we don't know what they are going through... but it is STILL the parent's responsibility to PARENT!
Not too long ago, I was verbally attacked on Facebook for complaining that a parent allowed their child to babble loudly for an hour during a (non-age-appropriate) movie before removing them from the theater, and that it was poor parenting not to remove the child earlier. While some of my Mommy friends came to my rescue and supported me, I realized that I do judge parents by how they handle their children in public. I appreciate the lack of kids in places like bars and certain all-inclusive resorts. But do I support banning children from restaurants or first-class cabins? NO. Kids have to eat, kids have to travel. There's a time and place for everything... I'm not going to get mad if I go to a G-rated movie or fast food restaurant and have to deal with unruly kids.
The ladies, for the most part, were in agreement with me.
Amanda (working mom): I have to admit that I have been the lady across the restaurant or airplane wanting to yell at the parents of a screaming child, but now that I have my own I understand that sometimes children just act up... but I will say that as parents we should KNOW how to control our children. I try not to take my son to sit down restaurants until I feel okay with his behavior out of respect to others. But fast food places like McDonalds and such are fair game.
Kris (married, no kids): I think it’s silly for restaurants & airlines to disallow children. How are families suppose to teach their children good manners if they are not allowed at restaurants? Everyone was a child once, everyone deserves a childhood. It is almost like society is saying that we shouldn’t have children.
Kim (engaged, no kids): I honestly think that it's a good thing that there are some things reserved for adults. I see both sides, and the compromise being that in some institutions they can have nights/days for adults and then times for kids/families. It doesn't need to be black and white, adults don't enjoy being around screaming children all the time but kids don't need to be completely excluded either. I will say that one of my biggest pet peeves is screaming kids in the movies. If they can't behave, leave them with a babysitter. Bottom line. You have to think about everyone around you because they are spending their hard-earned money as well.
Ellie (stay-at-home mom): I think the free market will work here. If there is a demand for "baby-free" airlines and "baby-free" restaurants, go for it. However, I sort of feel like this could be age discrimination. No? The point is, we'll have options. I'm not afraid of not having a place to eat with my baby or a plane to ride on in the near future.
Melanie (working, single mom): This is discrimination. Children are people and from an underclass that has no power.
Emma (married, no kids): I think it's ridiculous. But sadly, there are so many parents out there that don't have control of their children and let them run amok or be disruptive. I think that restaurants should have the right to ask patrons who cause problems to leave but not on a plane (obviously). Kids should be allowed in first class too.
Vickie (working mom): So that means they’re not letting a**holes on flights and in restaurants too? Isn’t that age discrimination? In a way it I think it’s a little too much. If you chose to eat at a family style restaurant, guess what, there are going to be families there. Just like families need to travel too. I am going to boycott companies that do this. I don’t always bring my kids with me when I eat and travel. Just because I don’t always have my children with me doesn’t mean that I won’t keep a policy like that in mind when I do go out. I think that it’s rather rude that some parents are not courteous enough to think of others while they are out.
One of the ladies was more outspoken, and expressed an opinion that is one that many in support of the no-kids-allowed rules share.
Maura (married, no kids): "I certainly agree with restrictions for children in public settings. If I choose to pay more to sit in a certain section of a plane, or choose a night out at a restaurant, I should not have to be bombarded by unruly children. I do not choose to scream or throw food, and do not care to be subjected to poopy diapers and the rest of it. I applaud those who stand up for the rights of others not to be subjected to other people’s children. It’s about being considerate to those around you, and remembering just because you produced a tiny human – the world doesn’t revolve around you. Children are born every day, it’s not a superhuman feat."
So what's the best way to deal with a child who throws a tantrum in public (like a movie or restaurant) and is disrupting other paying patrons? The ladies were in agreement here as well.
Mommies said:
-"Remove the child from the situation, if at all possible. Take them home. If that is simply not possible, in the interim, apologies to the patrons nearby and offering to buy us all a glass of wine is appreciated."
-"Definitely remove the child from the situation. They can try a few times to discipline them, but if that doesn't work, leave."
-"The best thing is to immediately take the child outside to the car (or toward home) and forget about running your errands that day--usually this enough for the child to know the parent is serious and that such behavior is not acceptable. As for movie theaters, kids should not be in the theater unless they are old enough to watch the more mature films (there is a rating system for a reason--a 3-year-old should not be viewing a PG movie)."
-"They shouldn’t bring a child into an inappropriate environment in the first place. If they do, then they should be considerate of the other people who also paid for their meal/tickets, and remove themselves from the situation. If I’m obnoxiously talking on a conference call at a restaurant or movie, I too would owe an apology to those around me, and should remove myself from the situation."
-"Remove child from environment. Period."
-"At the movie theater the parent should take the child out. I'm not sure if it's the right thing but when my child starts to be like that I quietly take him out of the theater out of respect and wait until he calms down."
Non-Mommies said:
-"If a child is loud or throwing a tantrum in a movie, they need to leave or at least get up. It is not fair to the other paying customers. They should have gotten a babysitter. [For restaurants] I totally feel that it depends on the location and the age of the child."
-"Babies don't belong in loud movie theatres, it's hard on their developing ear drums and if they cry, it's rude to the people who are trying to enjoy the film... if you're going to see something rated G/PG you should expect it and deal with it. Same goes for restaurants. If it's a nice place, maybe you shouldn't bring your kids if you know they're going to act up. If it's at McDonalds, then get a life people, McDonald's is for everyone! But seriously, it's the parent's responsibility to control the situation and know when to leave."
-"I think they should go outside and calm the child down and then return."
-"Honestly there are just some times and places that you do not bring your child out. They need to leave if the child is out of control. I know that I have left a movie early with a yelling toddler. It’s the polite thing to do."
-"Depends to the extent. If a baby is crying - the parent isn't going to enjoy anything they are doing anyway. It sounds harsh - but maybe they should try again another time. If children is being slightly rambunctious and not really bothering everything - then the general population should probably get over it because everyone was a child at some point. Same with a whiney baby - if it's just a little fussy - people should get over it."
Jo and Hannah made good points about children with special needs.
Jo (working mom): "I think the parent should either discipline or control their child, or step outside until things calm down. However, I think the general public should have a little patience. You never know what a child is going through. Perhaps they have some sort of mental or emotional condition and cannot control their outbursts."
Hannah (stay-at-home mom): "I am more understanding of this having a child with special issues... however, I still remove him from the area if it is an area meant to be quiet in (if I was attending a hockey game I'd probably stay there with him!)"
In summary, the general consensus was that banning children altogether from establishments and airplane cabins is discriminatory, but it all comes back to proper parenting in public. Most agree that parents need to take control of situations where their child is disruptive to others in public, and that sometimes the parents need to take the child out of the situation and sacrifice their night out to be fair to others. In addition, we need to have more patience with children in public, because they are human beings ad we don't know what they are going through... but it is STILL the parent's responsibility to PARENT!
Stay tuned for Part 5: Healing the Divide
